MINUTES OF THE COMMUNITY OF OWNERS REPRESENTATIVE
DATE: Friday 20th July 2007
VENUE: Main office HUMA - basement
TIME: 10.00am
ATTENDANCE
Andrew Heaney (Vice chairperson)
Francisco Domingo Frutos (Administrador)
Emil J. Böttcher (Translator)
Hannelore Rosskamp-Schmitz (Secretary)
Rick Wilmot
Terry Chapman
Chris Gatenby
Jack Taylor
Dave Dennis
Martin Heppell
Roger Jay
Karl-Heinz Schloemer
Sandra Miller
Wendy Slade (Minutes)
APOLOGIES
Frank van Son (President)
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING
The meeting opened with the previous minutes - amendment 3.2 The security guards will go to the aid of anyone in trouble or injured.
MATTERS ARISING:
1.0 Rick asked if we had purchased an attendance book.
1.1 Costs - A discussion took place about the outstanding debts to Huma. Dave stated that the Administrator is a lawyer, he can advice us and work out what we need to pay for lighting.
1.2 Terry - The law is ambiguous about who pays. The builders should pay until our habitation certificates are issued.
1.3 Emil - Electricity and Water should be free of charge but he is not sure about lighting. Frank will ask an engineer to do the costings.
1.4 Terry said Encarna paid Huma what was budgeted for and would not pay him any more money.
1.5 Terry - More containers were added to the urbanization?
1.6 Andrew - Asked why the representatives were not invited by the president to the previous meeting. Emil explained that the president did not call on us because he did not have time. We decided to have an informal discussion.
GARDENING COMPANY PRESENTATION
2.0 Gardeners: The Administrator introduced José Molina, Director of Comercial Jardinería y Parajismo Viveros Orihuela.
2.1 Terry - Asked if this company did cleaning as well as gardening. José said his company is the only one with quality workers and they respect the environment. We specialise in maintenance, landscaping. If we decide to employ them, they will not be perfect at first and it will take a little time to get things right. We are going to look after the roundabouts maybe put in flowers, it will take 3 months to improve. We have worked from Denia to Mazarrón and Bolnuevo. We do maintenance and cleaning.
2.2 Terry - Do you clear away gardening rubbish and larger items that are not gardening rubbish like broken loungers as the current gardeners do. Also the current gardeners cut the palm trees and once a year a specialist comes and trims them. They said that they would do this work.
2.3 Sandra - How many men do you require to maintain this urbanization. He stated 2 people from Monday to Friday are sufficient. José said the number of men are not important but the quality of work is and depends on the work involved. More workers added where required.
2.4 Terry - The system we have now is that every Monday the gardening rubbish is collected and removed, not every day, just once a week. Has this service been included in the price. José said it would be completed at no extra cost.
2.5 Andrew - Has José been fully informed as to all the work involved on the site. I think 2 men are inadequate because area 36 will be released very soon. José informed us that he had carried out a site inspection with his engineer.
2.6 Roger - We have an expert here, surely he should know what he is doing.
2.7 Dave - Do we have to maintain area 32. Roger said this is up to Huma.
2.8 Sandra - On this particular site 2 men are ideal for cutting the grass once a week and maintenance. The site looks huge but the gardeners are here 5 days a week (picking up rubbish will take a full day). José stated that where necessary more gardeners would be brought on site.
2.9 Andrew - I disagree with you, 2 people are not enough. One of the gardeners will be tied up with cleaning.
2.10 Terry - If more workers were needed, would it cost us any more money. José - Weekly cover is for 2 people cutting the grass once a week and quality is important. If there was a problem he would personally deal with it. The company is looking more long term and therefore quality was important. The community had to be kept happy with their services and they would work at no extra cost. José said he needs a few weeks to settle in.
2.11 José - The watering system is not working properly, we will change irrigation system at no extra cost.
2.12 Dave - Asked whether they had all the necessary equipment. Emil- they do have their own equipment.
2.13 Andrew - How often will you be cleaning the urbanization with your machine. José said they would clean every fortnight. It was recommended that this work be done on a weekly basis. José said he would cooperate with the community.
2.14 Terry - We are paying for this service and if we are not happy, who is the contact person? José said that all queries must go through him and not the workers. Roger - If things are not being done properly we can complain.
2.15 Terry - If we ask your company to do certain things does it effect the price. If the service is not good enough after 6 months can we end the contract.
2.16 Wendy - Asked if they will continue to spray inside and around manhole covers. Roger informed us that Huma brought in another contractor to do this work.
2.17 José said we must speak to him if we have a problem. He is the only contact person for our site. They would need time to get into everything.
2.18 Sandra - Because your company does landscaping can we look at other options instead of grass for the round-a-bouts (to reduce maintenance costs). Terry - If we change from grass to gravel can this be done. Emil said yes this is possible.
2.19 Rick - Asked whether the company would be employing their own workers or use employees currently working on this site. Also would it be possible for the workers to do individual residents gardens in their own time. José I don't think this is a good idea. They are employed by the community. If any of the gardeners are found working in individual gardens, they will be instantly dismissed.
2.20 Terry - Does your price for the community include restaurant and swimming pool area. José - yes. Andrew - We should let them do the restaurant and swimming pool area, as it is very important to the community. Emil- This is a grey area and it causes problems.
2.21 Martin - When is he able to start. José - lst September, this is not a problem. It is too hot in August. Andrew - we need street cleaning, we have visitors.
2.22 Andrew - José is quoting 86.810 € for gardening services.
2.23 The group thanked José for attending before he left.
MAZÁPOLIS COSTS were:-
Emil explained the following
Machine 4.000
Waste 6.000
Fuel 8.500
Cutting Grass 3.000
Cutting Grass 5 people 63.000
Cutting Trees 342
Cutting Trees 1 month a year 10.000
Waste 8.500
Insecticides 7.500
Replanting 2.000
3.0 These costs do not include IVA Not included in these costs are replacing grass, pumps, water, maintenance and street lighting.
3.1 Andrew - I am concerned about 2 people employed to do all the gardening. Who told them what is being done on the urbanization and do they know about all the little jobs. Administrator said José calculated his own figures with his engineer after a site visit.
3.2 Dave - What if José cannot meet the quotation for the work?
3.3 Sandra - In all fairness we have not specified all the work to him, so we cannot blame him. I have not seen any quotes. Both companies should be issued with the same specifications to make their quotes.
3.4 Mike - José is a landscaper and has worked in Valencia, do you not think he is experienced in giving quotations.
3.5 Terry - We are not struggling, we have four quotes. I know where you are coming from, they have done some big projects. I had to use my experience to do quotes, should we supply specifications and confirm quotations?
3.6 Dave - I got the impression that he did not know about the rubbish collection. We have to be very careful because of a knock on effect. He is not properly aware of this.
3.7 Jack - José may have given a lower quote because they wanted the work.
3.8 Karl-Heinz - We should tell the gardener what we want and go back to him with a complete list of things we want them to do.
3.9 Terry - Asked the gardener to confirm his price.
3.10 Sandra - We need a specification, before decisions can be made.
3.11 Dave - What are we going to do about August if we do not vote today. Rick - Directed the question to the Administrator. Administrator stated we all have our own adaptation. We need to know today if the new company will be welcome. Your opinion is needed today or the president will make the decision.
3.12 Karl-Heinz - We are not going to continue with Mazápolis. We have a very good alternative. If José’s quote includes all that is required on site then we will go with his company.
OTHER OPTION
4.0 Terry - A neighbour asked whether the present gardeners could continue to work for us (could we employ them full time - 4 men). 9 People are involved in the gardening and street cleaning, but 4 people can maintain these services. Their salary is 13.200 € per year for each gardener. They would like an increase in salary. But we would need to purchase all the machinery necessary.
4.1 Administrator - In response to the above he recalled what we discussed about security and said we should employ a professional company.
4.2 Karl-Heinz - We have already decided not to use Mazápolis. He asked the Administrator to make a contract as August is fast approaching.
4.3 If we bring in another company, what are the implications?
4.4 Dave - Stated that nobody voted for this new company at the AGM. Have we got the right to vote? Terry - There was no clear decision made.
4.5 Sandra - Stated that this whole discussion pertaining to a standard specification, to be issued to all companies for quotes, was originally raised several times at the AGM. This specification should have been drawn up as a result of the AGM. It appears that weeks have now been wasted and we are back to the same conclusion.
4.6 Roger/Karl-Heinz - We should tell them what we want.
4.7 Terry - He would sit down and write up a specification.
4.8 Emil - If we put an offer to Mazápolis, he thinks they may accept.
4.9 Administrator - Wanted everyone to state their opinion on the companies.
4.10 Terry - José to revise his price. Go back to Mazápolis and negotiate. We need another week for final offer.
4.11 Emil- Said that Mazápolis will wait for outcome of our discussions.
4.12 Sandra - Go back to both companies with the same specifications for updated quotes. The community should then make the decision.
4.13 Dave - I am not ready to vote, have we the right to vote? Community to vote.
4.14 Karl-Heinz - He has decided for new company.
4.15 Rick - No to Mazápolis. Did not like the fact that we were being held to ransom.
4.16 Jack - Try Mazápolis again and use the new company's quote to negotiate. They should use the same specification.
4.17 Chris - Wants the new company.
4.18 Martin - Wants the new company.
4.19 Roger - Wants the new company.
4.20 Andrew - Further quotes required.
4.21 Wendy - Do not like the idea of being held to ransom by Mazápolis. Need to get revised quote from new company, with price including all work required on site.
4.22 Hannelore - wants new company.
ANY OTHER BUSINESS
5.0 Rick - We need a copy of the internal rules.
6.0 Andrew - Asked whether we had an update on the web site. Emil said they are currently working on it.
7.0 Rick - Stated that the president should have updated his website informing the community of what is going on. There is still a lack of communication.
8.0 Dave - The president needs to update the website. People are getting fed up with the lack of information.
9.0 Emil- Frank needs to answer queries on his website.
10.0 Andrew - Asked whether details of how to pay the community charge could be included in the letters sent to the debtors. Emil stated that they should get in touch with Carmen.
11.0 Jack - He heard that the council could take over the roads, is this true? Emil said it is owned by the community, it is a private urbanization accessible to the public.
12.0 Sandra - Asked if the community was to request the council to adopt the roads and lighting, is this possible? We need to take into account future costs in this area. Emil said yes, if the community votes for it.
13.0 Rick - We should also include the sewerage.
14.0 Andrew - Did not want the council to take over.
15.0 Emil - Said he now has the liability insurance.
16.0 Martin - Wanted to know new charges per household. Emil said when all the figures are agreed, we will be able to calculate charges per house.
17.0 Rick - If people don't pay their community charge, we will be in trouble.
Meeting closed at 1pm
NEXT MEETING SCHEDULED FOR
WEDNESDAY 25th JULY
AT 10am (main office - basement)